Friday, July 27, 2012
Transcript of Narendra Modi Nayi Duniya interview
Gujarat riot coverage is considered the holy grail of journalism, in fact that's all they do. Unfortunately, the quality of coverage belies the importance the media assigns this tumultuous incident of Indian History. Narendra Modi sat down with the editor of an Urdu Weekly, Nai Duniya, Shahid Siddiqui, a former Rajya Sabha MP from the Samajwadi Party, for a long discussion. New York Times' India Ink webzine made a travesty of transcribing the piece - omitting key passages, obliterating the impact and thus sidestepping the truth. We crowd sourced the effort and with help from Suresh Nakhua and Jaymin Panchal, present the full unedited transliterated version. An English translation will follow. Please note that this is only a portion of the interview, the audio of which is available here. A transcription (in Devnagri script) of the full interview is available here. [pdf]
Q. Narendra bhai, yeh jo dango ke taraf hum aye, yeh jo dango ka dauran hua isko lekar bahot bibad hai, bahut batein hain, aaj bhi chal rahe hai, pichle bees saal se saare bhi baat chal rahe hain. So, isme ek to main yeh kahunga ki godhra mein jo hua incident aur jo train ke andar log jale, uske baad unke jo shab hai unko laya gaya ahmedabad mein aur yeh faisla aapne kyon kiya kaise kiya aur aapne iske ... repurcussions aapo ka andaza .. to samjhte ... aapko andaza nahin tha ki iske repuscussions baut jyada ho sakte hain?
Iss vishay ko bade bishtaar se maine SIT ko bhi jawab diya hai ... supreme court ko bhi diya hai ... bade bistaar se. Aur iske aadhar pe supreme court ne aapna report bhi de diya hai .. woh report jab aayega tab .. aayega (laugh).
Ji.
Koi bhi shab hoga, use dena to padega wapis us parivar ko? Dena padega ya nahin dena padega?
Ji.
Dena padega. Jahan par sabse jyada tanav hai .. wahan par koi dead body le ja sakta hai kya? [man lijiye] mehsana[?] tak kisika dead body hai woh godhra liya jayega kya? aur aise saab log Godhra jayenge to mahaul theek rahega kya? Tanav to Godhra mein tha .. ghatna to Godhra mein ghati thi. Doosra. Yeh train kahan jaa rahi thi? Yeh train Ahmedabad ja rahi thi. Yeh saare jo passengers the, yeh ahmedabad ke the. Iska matlab ki woh Ahmedabad ya Ahmedabad North mein hi unke body jane the. [Isko to wahan body jaana nahin tha.] To aapko body unke parivar tak pahunchane ka tarika kya? Tarika simple tarika kya?
Aspataal mein khamoshi se lake unko ... handover .. jaise ki hota hai dange mein hota hai ..
Theek hai? Theek hai?
Ji.
Achcha aisa hua hai to theek hai nai?
Ji.
Accha To aisa hi hua jaise aap bol rahe hain.
Yahan unko ..
Wahi, wahi .. sacchai sun lijiye.
Ji.
Aapko jo so called jhoot ke ...chali hai... uske aadhar pe bol rahe hain. Sacchai yeh hai
Kya ghumaya nahin gaya ...
Wohi to, yeh sun lijiye bada interesting hai. Aur yeh aaj nahin hai, aap us samay ke India Today ko bhi nikal kar ke dekh sakte ho. Naturally Godhra railway station se body ... accha, itne body rakhne ki Godhra mein koi jagah bhi nahi ho sakti .. yeh out of manage it's an administrative decision .. hota na? Ab doosri bat yeh hai ki body saare maalik iske North GUjarat ke the to body wahin bheja jata Yeh to pakka tha ki aapko shift to karna hi padega. Ab, individual shift karo ki lot mein shift karo .. shift ke bina chara nahin tha.
Doosra din mein karo ki raat mein karo. Administration ko laga .. ki andar hi andar isko .. [raat mein .. karo] .. tanav na ho. To, kuch shanti rakhne ki irade se kiya gaya yeh kam ... doosra tha, civil hospital le aye. Ahmedabad ke civil hospital me agar late ho to conjested hai .. wahan phir tanav paida hoga. Yeh buddhimaani thi sarkar ki usne ... outskirts mein, Shola[?] main, civil hospital hai aur uss samay mein woh totally outskirts tha .. 2001 mein woh develop nahin hua tha ... yani viraan ilake mein [...] woh saare dead body shola ..
Shola mein gaye.
Shola mein civil aspatal laya gaya. jo ki bilkul hi jangalo mein ek aspatal jisko kahe .. woh tha. Woh Jaffar[?] ko pura malum hai ki uss samay Shola[?] kya tha .. aaj to khair wahan jivan banne laga hai aur doosra ... wahan se koi joolus nahin nikla hai .. chup chap un parivaron ko dead body de diya gaya saath mein police de di gayi .. ek bhi procession nahin nikla... for your information .. not a single. Itna hi nahin, terah ya chaudah body aise then jine identification [...] jo identify nahin hue the. To uss ka bhi Shola[?] aspatal
ke peeche chup chap [...] dah sanskar[?] kiya gaya. Itni clear ki gayi hai, lekin ab jhoot chal pada hai.
Accha uske bad dange Gujarat mein jo bhadak uthe aur Ahmedabad mein bade paimane pe hue, to aapko information to mil gayi hogi ki yeh sab ho raha hai aag lag rahi hai aur yeh sab maare ja rahe hain .. to usko rokne ke liye yeh aapne kya thos kadam uthaye?
Dekhiye. Kya kya kadam ho sakta hai. Ek to police ka bal prayog ho sakta hai. Kanoonan curfew lagta hai. Yeh sab hota hai. Appeal hoti hai. Meri sabse pehle appeal Godhra se hi hai, sham ko hi. Ki kanoon kanoon ka kaam karega ... gunhegaron ko sajah milegi .. aur hum saab shanti rakhe wagarah wagahrah [..] radio .. TV par yes sab footage available hai. Sab kuch available hai. Wahin par, ussi din shamko [bola main].. doosri din hum log [...] laye wagairah . 27 Feb ko ghatana hua, raat ko hi maine, 10 - 10:30 baje wahan se wapis aya. Afsaro ko maine bulaya .. law & order ka jo bhi karna chahiye .. uski vyabastha ki. Jitna bhi police force tha woh kaam mein lagao .. yeh ghatna to HIndustan mein itni badi to kabhi hui nahi thi .. so ghatna badi bhayankar thi .. Accha doosra HIndustan mein pehle kya hota tha .. Aaj koi ghatna ghate .. to akhbaar mein doosre din aati hai.
Do deen baad, teen deen baad logo ko pata lagta hai.
Doosre din aati hai. Aur photo - wotoh aate aate to do deen, teen deen lag jate hain. In between Government machinery ko .. sara organize karna, force bhejna sab subidha ho jati hai. Aaj to ghatna hone ke teesri minute pe TV pe hota hai. TV ke speed aur police ke movement ke speed me to antar rahega.
Mujhe ek telephone pe Bardoa khabar deni hai to asani se de sakta hoon lekin Ahmedabad se Baroda police bhejni hai to ded ghanta lagna hi lagna hai To yeh pehli bar desh ko TV news ke speed
.. se compete karna pada.
Usse compete karna pada. Yeh bahut bada kathin kaam hai.. kissi ke liye yeh kathin kaam hai. Doosra. Accha yeh hoga ki hum HIndustan ki dango ka saath uhm iski ..
Tulna kiya jaye.
Uss aste[?] mein tulna nahin .. ki koi danga hua to hamare yaha danga hua to kya hua. Yeh sab me main tark dene walon mein main nahin hoon. 84 mein hua issliye hamara bhi guna maaf. Yeh main allow nahin karta hoon. .. Yeh mere soch ki [...] Lekin, 84 ka dange mein kya hua, yeh kya hua. First 72 hour mein kya hua. Ek bhi tear gas shell nahin chuta hai. Ek bhi police ki goli nahin chali hai. Ek bhi laathi charge nahin hua hai. First 72 hours mein. Lathi charge ek jagah pe hua tha to kahan hua tha? Jahan Indira Gandhi ka deadbody rakha tha. Wahan jo bheed hui thi, us bheed ko control karne ke liye lathi charge hua. Yahan par, 27 tarikh ko .. advance mein kito ko arrest kiya? Curfew lagaya gaya. Kitni goliyan chali, kitne tear gas chale, kitne log goliyon mein mare gaye. Yeh Hindustan ka record hai.
Lekin aapke bahut se log, aapne bhi afsar bhi, neta bhi uss wakth bhi aayi thi yeh batein, kuch media mein bhi aayi thi ki aapne yeh kaha ki abhi 48 ghante gussa nikalne do Hindu samaj ko. Yeh Haren Pandya ji ne bhi kaha tha yeh
Yeh jinhone kaha hai iska supreme court pe bharosha karna padega ... kisi pe to bharosa karna padega?
Ji ji karna padega bilkul.
So supreme court ne commitee bithai usne sara yeh report nikala hai. Yeh report de diya hai. To mereh kehne ke wajah, it is better ki jinhone bhi investigation kiya uspe bharosa kiya jai. Aur pehli bar is desh me kissi dange ka investigation hua hai. Uspar bharosha karna chahiye. Aur sarkar ne jo action liya main aapko ek sheet doonga .. exactly kya kiya sarkar ne. Aapko facts and figures ke saath milega. Aur sarkar itna aaj ke yug mein itna vibrant media ho .. itne vibrant ..
Aapne police se kaha ki kissi bhi keemat se danga roko, at any cost?
Bilkul .. mere .. public hai, shoot at sight ke order ka press statement hai ussi deen .. mera TV interview dekh lijiye. Accha .. 84 mein tha 72 hour tak army nahin aayi thi. Mere yahan .. accha doosra yeh gadbad kya hoti hai media ki 28 ke baad sabko lagta 29 tarikh aati hai. 29 ke baad 30 aati hai. 30 ke baad 31 aati hai. Uska baad ek tarikh aati hai. Lekin yeh bhul jatein hain ki February mein 28 ke dossre din
pehli tarikh thi.
[Laughs]
To log kya .. 28 ko danga hua aur ek tarikh tak army nahin aayi. Arre bhai 28 ke doosre din .. [laughs] .. to yeh dhyan rakhiye. Gujarat ko gali dene se pehla dekhiyega ki 28 February kebad ..
[ADDED TRANSCRIPT]
Q : Us Waqt Padha, Dekha Suna, ________ mein aaya tha, ke Identify Karke Chhant Chhant Ke Jis Tarah Se Aag Lagai Gayi, Jis Tarah se attack kiya gaya, jaise koi preplan hota hai, jaise koi tayari hoti hain, jaise koi listein maujood hoti hain, Yeh Sab Kaisa hua ?
A : Yeh Sab Jhoot Hai. Fir Kaise Hua ka jawab hi nahi hota. Its impossible. Yeh sarasar jhoot hai. Is ke bajay us samay kuch storiyan jo chhapi hain, kitne musalmano ko bachaya gaya, kitne logon ko protect kiya gaya. Yeh bhi to karma hai. Warna jo varnan karta hai waise hua hota to kaun bachta bhai.? Kaun bachta ?
Q : Aapke minister baithe hue the control room mein. Who wahan kya kar rahe the ?
A : In saare savalon ke jawaab SIT ke paas hain. SIT ne jaanch ki hai
Q : Wo to hai. Main chahta hunk e jo Hindustan ka jo minorities hain, musalman khas karke who janana chahte hain ki galat kaise ………. shaq hai
A : Yeh sara jhoot hai. Yeh sarasar jhoot Sarasar jhoot. Sarasar jhoot. Yeh Jhoot falaiya gaya. Ismein koi sachai nahi hai. Aur isliye Itni Badi Supreme Court …….. interrupts
Q : iska to record maujood hai k eke who maujood the control room mein
A : uska bhi SC ki team ne investigation kiya hai. Aur unhone kya paya uske intezaar kijiye. kya paya uske intezaar kijiye.. Mere kehne na kehna ka koi matlab nahi
Q. Aap .. jabhi dange ho rahe saher ka aapne round liya khud. Refugee camp mein gaye kabhi
Saare detl report usmein bhi avbl hai. Main sab jagah pe gaya. Sab ki chinta ki. Sab ki vyavastha ki. Itna hi nahi us samay aaye din GUJ HC mein PIL hoti thi. Saare judgement hai ki refugees ki best vyavastha govt ne ki. Ek bhram failaya jaata hai hamare desh mein ke GUJ mein relief camp sarkar ne nahi chalaya. Gujarat ki ek vishesta hai. Hamare paas samajik jivan bahut hi majboot hai Gujarat hai. Isliye sarkar ek yojana banati hai. Jab 50 logon ka camp hai to sarkar yeh degi. lekin saath mein sarkar unko management de deti hai. Bahut badhiya dhang se hai.
SS earthquake mein jaise hua tha
NM same pattern se. isliye uska sanchalan karne wale musalmaan honge. Us camp Chalane wale hindu hoge. Lekin uska sara karobar ka kharch sarkar uthati. Vyavastha who dekhte the. Yeh koi kehta ki sarkar ………
SS Iska koi record hai ki kitna anaj gaya, kitna paisa gaya in campon mein
Ha Ha sab record avbl hai. sab record avbl hai. Aur Hindustan mein ab tak ke communal violence mein utam se utam facility wala koi relief camp hai to who Guj wala hai. Itna hi nahi 10vi ki exam thi to un bacho ki siksha diksha ka pura prabandh sarkar ne kiya. Aur acchhe dhang se bachhe pass hokar bhi nikle. Yeh bhi PIL hua tha. PIL mein hum jite hain. Lekin jo acchi aur sachi baatein hai who bahar na lana ek media ne theka liya hua hai
SS Us waqt Atalji PM the. Unhone aapse kya kaha hai
Vdo avbl hai
SS kuch alag se bhi kaha hoga. Sab kuch VDO pe to nahi kaha hoga unhone
NM yeh jhoot chalaya jata hai – rajdharma wala kaha. Usi vdo mein aage hai – mujhe
malum hai modi rajdharmnibhate hain – yeh delete kar diya jaata hai – uski cd avbl hai –
uska hi dusra continuation mein sentence hai
SS ab kafi samay ho gaya 20 saal ho gaye is baat ko (some1 prompts 10 saal) 10 saal ho
gaye is baat ko. Us waqt kya kaha atalji – kya kar rahe ho, kya karna chahiye, kya ho
sakta hai
NM aisa hai hum sab achha karne ke liye sab mil jul ke koshish karte hai. Sab log karte
hai
SS yeh baat kahi jati hai – dange hue – 84 ke dange hue – rajiv longval samjauta bhi hua
– Punjab ka – Punjab ke masle ko hal bhi kiya – RG ne bhi maafi mangi SG bhi ne maafi
mangi – jo Con ke leader usmein paaye gaye HKL Bhagat, Tytler unko rniti se bahar kiya
gaya jabki saabit nahi hua tha unpe kuch – aapne aajtak na regret ki na kabhi maafi mangi
jabki, Head of state ke hasiyat se aap ko us pe maafi mangni chahiye thi – jo bhi hua tha
NM pehli baat pehli baat – us samay main jo kya bayan diye the usko 1 baar dekh lena
chahiye . Is saari ghatnayen pe modi ka drushtikon kya ha. Modi kya sochta hai. Us
samay heat of time jo bola gaya hai usko to sachai hoti hai. Aaj to ab 10 saal ho gaye
to arram se baithke ac room mein baatein hoti hain. Woh sentences mein aapko dunga
datewise hai. Aap us samay ke media ko nikalkar dekh lijiyega. Us aap ko andaz aayega
ki hum kya sochte hain, humnein kaha hai (instructs some1 : woh baad mein de dena).
Ek mear intrvw hua tha 2005-06 – sidhi baat mein intrvw hua tha – aur shayad prabhu
chawla ne. Usene mujhe sawaal pucha – maafi kyun nahi maange? Maine unse kaha
bhi mujhe maaf kyun karna chahiye…. Agar 1 sarkar ne yeh sab karvaya hai to usko to
chaurahe par faansi pe latkana chahiye aur aisi faansi deni chahiye ke taaki bhavishya
mein 100 saal tak koi shashak is prakar ka paap na kar sake. Usko maaf karma hi nahi
chahiye. Aur jo yeh maaf karne ki vakalat karte hain who gunah ko badhava de rahe
hai. Agar Narendra Modi ne gunah kiya hai, dur dur tak kiya hai, to Modi ko faansi pe
latka do – yeh meri maang hai samnese. Lekin imandari se koshish karne ke baad bhi aur
lakhon logon ki zindagi bachane ke baad bhi rajnitik karno se koi log gaali galoch karte
hi rahte hai, to unke liye mere paas koi jawab nahi hai
SS Lekin Jo hua uske le aapke man koi dukh hai, jo ho galat hua, nahi rok paaye, 1000 se
upar log mare
NM Usko Liye Uske liye Rok Paya Hun. Main yeh manane ko tayar nahi hun ke nahin
rok paya. Yeh ghatna ko samajna padega
SS samaj to rahe hain 10 baras se
NM main batata hun us samay main kya kaha who aapko main deta hun uska upyog
kijiye. Sab kuch avbl hai. Uska upyog nahi hua hai
SS main akhbaar ke editor hun. Mere akhbaar mein koi correspondent bhejta hai khabar.
Galat khabar chhapti hai to correspondent nahi main kshama mangta hun, editor kshma
mangta hai ki galat khabar chhap gayi. Agar mukadama chalta hai to mere pe chalta hai,
us pe bhi chalta hai correspondent pe bhi
NM isliye main kehta hai us samay jo kuch bhi aaj aap chah rahe hain avbl hai. Main yeh
keh raha hai. Aaj kahunga aisa nahi hai. Us pal bhi kaha hai
SS us waqt bhi aapne regret kiya hai ? kshma maangi hai ?
NM main aapka pura sheet de raha hun. Aap le jaiye na. pura usme date wise sheet de
raha hun. aur yeh tay kijiye itna saara karne ke baad bhi modi ko _________ matlab
humnein modi se anyay kiya kiya hai.yeh bhi likhna niche. Yeh bhi likhiye aapko
datewise milega. Who sheet mein bhi modi kya sochta tha aur kya kehta tha. To khud
aapko lagega ki bhai humnein is aadmi se 10 saal tak ghor anyay kiya hai. To maafi to us
MODI ki maangni chahiye ki jispe bina karan itna jurmana kar diya
SS lekin yeh aarop lagta hai ke dange hue chaliye us waqt heat of moment tha jo hona
tha hua lekin uske baad bhi jo insaaf milna chahiye tha who aapka administration dene
to tayar nahi hua jab tak SC ne SIT nahi banaya aur dabav nahi SC ka bana varna sabko
bari kar diya gaya tha jyadatar cases mein sabkuch band karke mamle ko khatam kar diya
NM aap jhoot ke shikar hue hain
SS sare desh shikar hai puri duniya shikar hain kya karein ?
NM yeh ek vested interest group hai. Uske shikar hai. Aap jis SIT ki baat kar rahe hain
who sirf 8/9 case ko dekhti hain – only 8 or 9 – aapki jaankari ke liye – yahanto hazaron
fir hue hain, hazaron log arrest hue hain – aur aaj tak Hindustan mein 84 ke dango mein
ek aadmi ko ek case mein saza nahi hui hai – mere yahan 50 se adhik case ke judgement
aa chuke hai – saza ho chuki hai – jin 2 case ki aap charcha karte hain – aap ke jaankari
ke liye – aapke vachko ko kaam aayega – 1) best bakery case 2) bilkis bano case – best
bakery ka case bahar leke gaye uska kya hua – jaanch kisne ki – Gujarat Police Ne –
chargesheet kisne banayi - Gujarat Police Ne, fir kisne ki - Gujarat Police Ne, witness
kaun laya - Gujarat Police. Sab Kuch Gujarat Police – Ek judge ne nirdosh chhod diya
– HC ne nirdosh chhod diya – fir us case ko maharashtra le gaye – wohi kagaz, wohi
witness, wohi prakriya, wohi GUJ Police ka record – Mah mein unko sajayi hui –
mujhe yeh bataye GUJ Police doshit kahan – koi naya investigation nahi hai, koi nahi
chargesheet nahi hai – naye witness nahin laye – GUJ Police ko dosh kaaise diya – aapne
judiciary pe avishwas kiya – guj ki judiciary ke bajay aap mah ki judiciary ke paas le
gaye bilkis bano ka case - Gujarat police ne investigation kiya Gujarat police ne logoko
arrest kiya Gujarat police ne chargesheet di Fir ki baad mein mamla CBI ko de diya .
CBI ne dubara jaanch ki CBI ne kuch 8-9 logo ko arrest kiya case chala . Maharashtra
mein chala aur aapko jaanke hairaani hogi Gujarat police ne jinko arrest kiya unko sazaa
hui aur CBI ne jinko arrest kiya tha who nirdosh chut gaye , ek aadmi ko sazaa hui to
teesta setalvad tv debates mein aake bolti hai , nahi aisa nahi sab jhoot hai, ek koi hui hai,
aur who kaun hai aur kya sazaa hui hai ek policewale ne jo kagaz CBI ko dene the ,
jo bhi use translation karwana tha , translation mein delay hua toh delay kiya uski sazaa
hui koi ghatna ki sazaa nahi hui . Kagaza CBI ko dene mein delay hua, isliye CBI ne
uspar case kiya uski sazaa hui aur who bhi 2- 3 mahino ki , ab mujhe bataye Gujarat
police kaha doshi hai teesri baat yeh cases abhi bhi chal rahe hai, uska karan kya hai,
23 baar stay liya gaya hai aur stay liya hai is soc called secular logo ne
SS – Lekin Gujarat mein dango ke baadse encounter hote rahe, aur us encounter ki vajah se
aapke bahut se police officer bhi jail mein hai , who encounter ki jaisa samne aa raha hai ,
primafacie aa raha hai ki farzi encounter hai , aisa aapke yaha kyu itna jyada ho raha hai,
kya yeh ek approach thi administration ki
NM – Sun lijiye Sun lijiye, Abhi mein Uttar Pradesh ki jaha ke aap neta ho, jis party se
aap nelong karte ho , unka advt mein aapko batata hu, mayawati ji ka .. maywati ji ke
advertisement mein likha hai ki humne 396 encounter karke kanoon vyavastha ko kayaam
kiya . unhone khudne likha hai khudne gaurav se kaha hai humare raj mein 396 encounter
hue. Mere rajya mein toh sirf 12 encounter hue hai. Abhi take k bhi encounter mein sazaa
nahi hui . mamla court mein hai. Hindustan ke National human right commission , jispe
aapko bharosa karna chahiye, usne kaha hai, peechle dus saal mein jitney encounter
hai, usme se 400 farzi paye gaye hai. Supremecourt mein ek arzi padi hui ke in sab ka
reinvestigation hona chahiye, toh sirf Gujarat ka kyu ho raha hai , sare desh ka kyo nahi ho
raha . Chinta ka Vishay ye hai, kyo Gujarat ko target kiya jaa raha hai
SS – yeh kyu ho raha hai
NM – mein yahi sawaal aapse pooch raha hu, aisa kyu ho raha hai. Uttar Pradesh mein
encounter ho rahe, poore desh mein ho rahae hai, Mumbai mein ho rahe hai . sirf Gujarat ko
target kyo kiya jaa raha hai, kya yeh justice hai kya
SS – Kon kar raha haim pseudo secularist kar rahe hai
NM – Jo bhi Gujarat ke peeche lagi hai, who jammat kar rahi hai. Jo log Gujarat ko badnaam
karne mein lage hai, who log kar rahe hai
SS – Yane Congress
NM – mein kisi rajneetik dal pe aarop nahi laga raha. Mein yeh keh raha hu, Gujarat ko
tabaah karnewali jo toli hai, usi ke karname hai. Justice sabko milna chahiye
SS – Aap ki apni party ke log , kuch hindu parishad ke log RSS aur BJP ke log who aap
pe aarop lagate hai dictator hone ka. Aur logo ko bolne na dene ka. Jaise bhey ka mahool
banana ka. Kyu aisa hai . virodhi nahi, aapki party ke log aarop laga rahee hai
NM – Dekhiye aisa hai ki, mere paas aise koi jankari nahi hai, number 1, number 2, fir bhi
agar kisi ne kahi kuch kaha ho , toh loktantra hai , unko apni baat kehne ka adhikar hai .
teesri baat agar koi mujhe gale de hi raha hai toh , mujhpe aarop laga hi raha hai toh ..
lagata raha hai, who apne aap mein ek bahut badi baat hai
SS – iska matlab hai ki dictatorship nahi hai
NM – wahi toh badi baat hai
SS – lekin kyu aisa ho raha hai, kyu bheybhit hai aapke badhne se, aapki popularity se , kya
aapko lagta hai
NM – Dekhiye, mein nahi manta hu aisi koi baat hai . aur jab koi baat mujhe lagti nahi hai ,
toh mujhe usme karan kaha se nazar aayega
SS – Ache mujhe yeh bataiye , yeh aam charcha hai poore desh mein ki aap aane wale
samay mein Gujarat se nikalke ke rashtra ke rajneeti ke bhaar ko sambhalna aapke kandho
pe aane wala hai aur aapko ek bhavi pradhan mantra ke roop mein bhi dekha jata hai . Toh
manlo aapka Hindustan ke pradhan mantra bante hai , toh aapki kya 5 priorities kya hogi
NM – pehli baat , mein multaha (primarily) sangathan ka aadmi raha hu , ek dedicated, aur
mein organization ka kaam dekhta raha hu . ek vishisth paristhiti mein, mein mukhya mantra
ban gaya aur na zindagi mein kabhi koi school ke monitor ka chunav nahi lada, na mein
kabhi panchayat mein chuna gaya tha, nahi mein kisi ke chunav ka agent bana hu , nahi
mein kabhi booth ka representative bana hu , mein is duniya ka insaan hi nahi tha , toh mera
is duniya se koi lena dena nahi raha . ek vishisth paristhiti mein party ne mujhe kaam diya ,
aur mera poora focus administration pe hai aur usme mein laga hua hu, aur mera saaf hai 6
crore gujarati , yeh mera jo kuch bhi hai who hai unka such unki bhalai
SS – toh 100 crore hindustaniyo ki bhalai?
NM – mein batata hu, agar mein Gujarat ka vikas karta hu aur UP ke paanch bacho ko yaha
rozgar milta hai, toh mein desh ki seva kar raha hu agar mein Gujarat mein acha kaam karta
hu aur Orissa se log mere rajya mein aake kamai karte hai aur money order apne ghar
bhejte hai, mein desh ka kaam karta hu
SS – maan lijiye aap pradhan mantra ban gaye toh aapki kya priorities hogi
NM – pehli baat, mere deemag mein Gujarat ke sivah kuch hota nahi hai . mein Gujarat ke
siva kuch sochta nahi huaur Gujarat ke liye mere bahit sapne hai mein is desh ki jitni seva,
Gujarat ke madhyam se karunga . mera mantra aisa hai bharat ke vikas ke liye , Gujarat
ka vikas, aur mera aisa manna hai, suba acha kaam karega, toh desk ke hi kaam mein
aane wala hai . yaha achi kheti hogi toh desh ke logo ka pet bharega yaha namak acha
paida hoga , oh desh ke logo ko acha namak milega . toh yeh kaam karta hu. Aur mein naa
iske aage kuch sochta hu naa samay lagata hue k hi kaam mein laga hu aur usi mein laga
rahunga
SS – Lekin jaise BJP mein ek khema hai, jo aapko bhavi pradhan mantra ke roop mein
presh karna chahte hai, aur maan lijiye aap kal pradhan mantra ban jate hai , toh kon se aise
paanch kaam karna chahenge
NM – dekhiye mein aise loaded sawalo ka jawab naa kabhi sochta hu aur naa kabhi deta hu
aur zaroorat bhi nahi hai mein sirf Gujarat, Gujarat Gujarat aur mere 6 crore gujarati unka
bhavishya bhagya aur usike liye bhagwan ne mujhe jo avsar diya hai aur janta janardan
mera parmatma hai who jo kehti hai mein kata hu
Saturday, January 8, 2011
Translation of Swamy Aseemanand's confession
Update:
(Post updated with TOI translation where that part in the confession appears.)
Note: This is a rough and loose translation of the Hindi portions of the confessional document as obtained by Tehelka and published on their website [pdf] [Scribd]. The translation will read weird at places since it was done in haste and we wanted to preserve the original context as much as possible. Needless to say this is a work in progress. The translation starts at page 14 of the original document.
Confessional Statement ??? 164 CrPC of Sh. Naba Kumar Sarkar @ Swami Aseemanand s/o Late Sh. Bibhuti Bhusan Sarkar R/O Village & PO Kamarpukur, District Hooghly, West Bengal, Aged 59 years.
Without Oath:
I used to live with my parents and my brothers in the village of Kamarpukur (WB). Swamy Ramkrishna Paramhans was born in our village. There is even a branch of the Ramkrishna mission there. From my childhood I used to visit the mission and read their literature. I also read the work of Swamy Vivekananda and was highly influenced by them and decided in my childhood itself that after completing my studies I would spend my life serving the Adivasis. From Kamarpukur college I graduated in 1971 with a B.Sc. (Hons) in Physics and during this period got exposure to the RSS.
I went to Burdwan in 1971 itself to pursue an M.Sc. In Burdwan, I became more active in RSS work. In 1975, during the period of emergency, I even went to jail under DIR and got my bail only after 3 1/2 months later. In 1977 I decided to work full time for the RSS run Adivasi Kalyan Ashram. I started working for the Adivasi Kalyan Ashram in Birbhum, Purulia and Bankura district branches. I was instrumental in starting hostels for Adivasi children in those palces. I lived there till 1981 and subsequently went to the Ashram of my Guru Swamy Paramanand, in Banagram, district Burdwan. Guruji named me Aseemanand. I lived in the Ashram till 1988 and served Guruji. In 1988, on advice of my Guruji, I went to Andaman and Nikobar Islands to run the Banvasi Kalyan Ashram there. I lived there till 1993. In 1993, I went to Jaspur, Chattisgarh where the Banvasi Kalyan Ashram headquarters are located. At the time Chattisgarh was part of Madhya Pradesh. I was given the work of spreading awareness and religion nationwide.
During this time in 1995 I went to the Dang district in Gujarat. From 1997, I became a permanent resident of Dang, living in a place called Waghai, in the hostels of Vanvasi Kalyan Ashram. I started travelling widely to spread religious awareness in the Adivasis of the region. Here, at a place called Subir, Adivasis narrated the legend of Shabari. She used to live there and had fed half eaten berries to Lord Ram. They showed me the three rocks where Lord Ram, Lakshman and Shabari had sat upon.
The environment seemed conducive to a temple so I started a trust with the help of folks from Surat and ????. The trust was called the Shabarimata Sena Samiti. Jayatibhai Kebat was the Trustee of this trust, he lived in Nosari. To raise the funds needed for temple construction, we organized a Ram Katha session with Murari Bapu, in October 2002. The Adivasis in Dang and nearby areas participated in great numbers in the program. The program ran for 9 days and during the time Murari Bapu said even bigger programs in the name of Shabari Kumbh should be organized. RSS took the responsibility of organizing this event and created a body called Shabari Kubh Samiti.
On February 13, 2006, the Shabari Kumbh was organized at a place 6 KMs from Shabari Dham near a lake called Pompa Sarovar.
In January 2003, Jayati Bhai Kebat told me that an ABVP activist called Pragya Singh wanted to meet me. After about a month, I went to Nousri with Jayati Bhai Kebat and Pragya also arrived there. I met her there. She said she would visit me in the Vanvasi Kalyan Ashram in Waghai a month later. A month later she did visit, along with 3 young men. One of them was called Manoj but later I found out he was Sunil Joshi. Pragya said Manoj had come from Indore, but later I found out he was wanted in some cases in Madhya Pradesh. Even Pragya Singh accepted this later. Then Pragya Singh left Waghai with the three men and I came back to Shabari Dham. Pragya had said she would come to Shabari Dham a month later and she did, along with Manoj @ Sunil Joshi. There was one more man and a woman with them but I do not know them. They stayed for a day or two. In April-May 2004, I went to Kumbh Mela in Ujjain. There Pragya Singh put up a tent in the name of an organization called Jai Vande Mataram. This was Pragya Singh's organization and she was its secretary. Manoj @ Sunil Joshi and I stayed in the RSS offices.
In this program a man called Bharat Bhai had come from Valsad, Gujarat and he stayed in the tent of Pragya Singh. I met Bharat Bhai there. I knew him from before, since 1998.
In 2002, there were a series of attacks by Muslims on Hindu temples. This perturbed me a great deal. I used to discuss this with Bharat Bhai of Valsad. It seemed to me that even Bharat Bhai was seriously thnking about this and wanted to say something about it. I felt he had the same feeling inside him about the issue.
In 2006 there was a blast at the Sankat Mochan temple in Kashi. In March 2006, Pragya Singh, Sunil Joshi and and Bharat Bhai came to Shabari Dham. We were all disturbed about the blast at the Sankat Mochan temple and decided that we should retaliate. We decided that Sunil Joshi and Bharat Bhai would go to Jharkhand and get some SIM cards and pistols. I suggested they visit Gorakhpur and Agra as well. I told them to meet Yogi Adityanath in Gorakhpur and Rajeshwar Singh in Agra and discuss this. I also gave them Rs 25,000 for the equipment, the money was handed to Sunil Joshi. They set out to do this in April, 2006.
In May 2006, Manoj @ Sunil Joshi came to meet me in Shabari Dham. He told me there were three or four other individuals who joined our cause and we should have a meeting. Then in June 2006, this meeting took place at the residence of Bharat Bhai in Valsad. In this meeting I, Bharat Bhai, Pragya Singh, Sunil Joshi and the four men were present. At the time I did not know the name of the other four men. I met one of them later and came to know that his name was Sandeep Dange. I came to know the names of the other three even later. I was shown their photographs by the CBI later and then I learnt their names. One was called Ramji. The other was called Lokesh Sharma. The third was called Amit.
In the meeting that took place at Bharat Bhai's place, I told everyone we should have a bomb for bomb campaign. It is not right that us Hindus sit silently. At this Sandeep Dange said Hindus are silent and so are you but there are those who walk the talk. I understood that this harsh comment from Sandeep Dange came because in the meeting itself he and Pragya had asked for money but I refused. Bharat Bhai agreed to my thoughts. At this, Sandeep Dange said you folks keep flying in the sky and you do not know the reality because your feet is not on the ground. Sunil Joshi explained that Sandeep Dange was a bit temperamental but a good boy. I had the feeling in the meeting that these people were already up to something. After the meeting we had meals and even after this Sunil, Bharat Bhai and Pragya Singh sat at a distance, The other four sat separately. I suggested to this group of four that Malegaon in Maharashtra had an 80% Muslim population and first bomb must be placed there. Then I said since the Nizam of Hyderabad had sided with Pakistan at the time of Independence, Hyderabad should be taught a lesson and a bomb placed there as well. Then I said a place like Ajmer should be atarget since Hindus thronged in large numbers in the Dargah there. I also said that a bomb should be placed at Aligarh Muslim University as well since a large number of Muslim students studied there. Everyone agreed to these locations and it was decided to bomb all these four places. Sunil Joshi took the responsibility of doing recon of all four places. It was Sunil Joshi who suggested that the Samjhauta Express which runs between India and Pakistan should also be targeted with a bomb blast. He himself took the responsibility of this. Sunil Joshi said that he had been able to obtain SIM cards and pistols in Jharkhand. Sunil Joshi also said that no help was forthcoming from Yogi Adityanath and Rajeshwar Singh. Sunil Joshi also said that the bomb blast on Samjhauta express could not be triggered by SIM cards, for this purpose specials chemicals were needed, which would be procured by Sandeep.
Sunil Joshi said there should be three groups for pulling off the bomb blasts. One group should be responsible for financial help and other arrangements. One group should handle the procurement. The third group would place the bomb. Sunil Joshi said that it is better that these three groups do not know about each other.Sunil Joshi said he would do the coordination of the three groups. Then our meeting ended.
During the meeting I was told to organize financial help and arrange some places.Sandeep was given the responsibility of preparing and placing the bombs. Sunil had said that men from one group should not know about the men from the others and should not even try to find out. Otherwise if one got caught, everyone would get implicated.
Then all of us went back to our respective places. Then during Diwali of 2006, Sunil Joshi came to meet me at Shabari Dham. By then the Malegaon blast had already happened and. Sunil told me that the blast at Malegaon was done by our people. I said to Sunil that the newspapers reported that some Muslims had done that and some Muslims had even been apprehended. I asked him which of our men had done this? Sunil declined to answer. I said to him that he was making false claims and that his people did not do the Malegaon blast but he explained to me that he and his people did.
Our Transcript: >>> In February 2007, Sunil Joshi and Bharat Bhai travelled on a motor cycle from Bharat Bhai's place to Balpur and visited the Shiv temple. I was already there. We had planned to meet on Shiv Ratri. There Sunil said there would be good news in the papers in a day or too, keep an eye on the newspapers. Then they went back and I came back to Shabari Dham. Two - three days after this again I went to Bharat Bhai's place where Sunil and Pragya were already present. By this time the newspapers had already reported the Samjhauta Express blast. I said to Sunil that there has already been a blast on the Samjhauta Express and you are sitting here. He responded to that by claiming this was the handiwork of our people. I said, this was done by ISI, Pakistan. Sunil said why would Muslims kill other Muslims. I said this happens daily in Pakistan but Sunil did not say anything to that.
>>> TOI Transcript: In February 2007, Joshi, Bharat and I met in a Shiva temple at Balpur. Joshi told me that a good news would be reported in the media within two days ... After two-three days, I went to Bharat's house, where Joshi and Pragya were already present. News of the Samjhauta Express blast had appeared in the papers. I told Joshi that it was the work of ISI, but he said that his people had done it. Joshi asked why would Muslims kill Muslims and I replied that it happened everyday in Pakistan. Joshi did not respond.
At Bharat Bhai's residence, Sunil Joshi took Rs. 40,000 from us to do a bomb blast in Hyderabad. A month or two later Sunil Joshi phoned me and asked me to look out for good news in the newspapers. Three four days later there was a bomb blast at the Mecca Masjid in Hyderabad. After 7 -8 days later Sunil Joshi arrived at Shabari Dham with a copy of Telugu newspaper which carried the pictures of the blast. Sunil told me that this blast was the handiwork of our own men. I said to Sunil that the newspapers reported that some Muslims had been apprehended. Sunil repeated that our people had done the blast. Sunil stayed for a day or two and then left.
Three - four months later Bharat bhai called to say Sunil had been trying to call but was not getting through. He would come and meet you in a few days, Two - three days later Sunil came to meet me with two other men called Raj and Mehul. These two men had visited Shabari Dham with Sunil Joshi before. Sunil said the bomb blast at Ajmer was done by our people. Sunil also said that he was also present. I asked Sunil who else were with you? He said he had two Muslim boys with him. I asked Sunil where did he find these Muslim boys? Sunil Joshi replied that Indreshji got these two boys. I said to Sunil that if Indreshji had provided these two Muslim boys then if you get caught, Indreshji would also get implicated. I told him that he had a threat to life from Indreshji. I said to him that since you got the job done by Muslim boys, you also have a threat from Muslims. I asked Sunil to not go anywhere and stay there. Sunil Joshi said he had some work in Devas, MP and he would come back soon. Sunil said he would leave Raj and Mehul behind for a few days. Sunil also said that Raj and Mehul were wanted in the Best Bakery case. I said to him the Best Bakery case is in Gujarat and so is the Shabari Dham, so it was not safe for these boys to be here and that he should take them with him. The next day Sunil Joshi along with the two boys left for Devas, MP.
A few days later a call came from Bhart Bhai informing that Sunil Joshi had been murdered. The same day I called Col. Purohit and informed him that one of our guys, Sunil Joshi, had been murdered and this was the same guy who had been involved in the Ajmer Bomb blast. I asked Col. Purohit that you are from the intelligence, find out who murdered Sunil Joshi. Col. Purohit said Sunil Joshi had committed murders in the past and he was killed for revenge.
In 2005, Indresh Kumar, who is a member of the RSS working committee met me accompanied by some big leaders from RSS. After an RSS meeting in Surat, they had come to visit Shabari Dham. Thereafter the Shabari Kumbh festial was being organized at Pumpa Sarovar and INdreshji met us there in a tent. At the time Sunil Joshi was also present. Indreshji said to me that when you talk about bomb for bomb, it is not your work. RSS mandates you to do work for the Adivasis and only that. He also said that they had been thinking in the same lines I was. This responsibility however had been given to Sunil. Indreshji said we will do whatever is required to help Sunil. I also found out that Sunil Joshi, along with Bharat Bhai, had met with Indreshji in Nagpur and Indreshji had given Rs. 50,000 to Sunil Joshi in front of Bharat Bhai. Col. Purhit once even told me that Indreshji was an ISI agent and he had documents to prove it. But he never showed me those documents.
There was a big meeting of Abhinav Bharat in April 2008. In the meeting I, Pragya Singh, Bharat Bhai, Col. Purohit, Dayanand Pandey, Sudhakar Chaturvedi, Sameer Kulkarni, Himani Savarkar, Tapan Ghosh, Dr. R.P. Singh and Rajeshwar Singh were present. IN the meeting I had proposed the bomb for bomb campaign. Then Abhinav Bharat created a body and held elections for the president etc. In January 2007, there was yet another meeting of Abhinav Bharat and I met Col. Purohit there as well. I had met Col. Purohit in a meeting at Pune as well.
In October 2008, while I was at Shabari Dham, a call came from Sandeep Dange. Sandeep said he was at a place called Vijara and he wanted to come to Shabari Dham and wanted to stay for a few days. I told him I was preparing to visit Nadiad and that his stay would not be appropriate. Sandeep said if you are going to Nadiad, I will also come along up to Baroda. I traveled to the Vyara bus stand in my Santro car. There was another man with Sandeep and the two of them hastily entered my vehicle. They carried three - four heavy bags with them. I asked him where was he coming from. He said he was coming from Maharashtra. They were not able to speak properly. I took them to the Baroda - Rajpipla Road Junction via Rajpipla. Later I realized they were meeting me the day after the Malegaon blast. Later I found out the man with Sandeep was Ramji.
One or two days before or after every bomb blast Sunil would tell me that his people had done it or was going to to do it but by the time the 2008 Malegaon blast happened, Sunil Joshi had been murdered. Later I found out the Malegaon 2008 blast was also done by our people. While Sunil was alive we did all the bomb blasts together but now it seems to me that whatever we did was wrong. I am feeling very contrite from inside. That is why I decided to make this confession. I don't have anything more to say.
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